Scroll

Latest Episodes

The NOW Gen

Brands

Brand Purpose and Engaging Marketing Strategies for The NOW Gen

In this episode, we talk with Jos Harrison, Global Head of Brand Experience and Design at Reckitt about how brands manage to connect with people on The NOW Gen and create a meaningful purpose and connection between them.

Guest

Jos Harrison

Transcript

Francisco Serrano (00:04):
Okay, so welcome back. Let’s welcome. Jos Harrison, he’s the global head of brand experience and design at Reckitt. His ambition is to bring brands closer to people and he has been an advocate for brands for many years, for a force of good. Today, we’re glad to have him here to talk about how brands manage to connect with the Now Gen and create meaningful and purposeful connection between them. Welcome Josh, glad to have you as a special guest on the NOW Gen podcast.

Jos Harrison (00:41):
Hi Francisco. It’s great to be here. I appreciate the invite

Francisco Serrano (00:45):
Now. Thank you. It’s always great to have people with such a history of dealing with brands. You’ve been having quite a ride, right? There in several companies. Can you talk a little bit about your background?

Jos Harrison (01:01):
Sure. Yeah. So originally I’m a product designer, so I’ve trained in industrial and product design, seems like a very long time ago now. My background therefore is in kind of physical structures, economics interactions with products and spaces, a little bit of spatial design but actually I’ve spent time over the years in, as you say, in various different agency and client side organizations working in most aspects in the creative industry. It has been quite varied. So, I’ve worked in commercial interior design, kind of space planning and moving people around large open spaces. I’ve worked in, FMCG food, specifically in confectionary and drinks. So that has been a number of years at Cadbury, used to be called Cadbury-Schweppes. And I joined again sometime ago, so had a lot of fun working in chocolate and sweets, which is a super industry…

Jos Harrison (02:08):
…Really it’s as fun as it sounds and even better to work in the location that I worked in Bournville in Birmingham, in the UK, it’s the center of the Cadbury company, if you like. And it’s where the primary factory is there. The original factory that was built by Quakers. It’s a fabulous location, but of course it’s a chocolate factory and it’s as good as everyone kind of imagines a chocolate factory to be. It really is kind of Willy Wonka stuff. So it was a lot of fun working on branding and innovation and presence marketing did a lot of work on again on large spaces and kind of themed attractions. We worked with a lot of partners like Legoland and Alton Towers. So that was huge fun, a massive learning curve for me…

Jos Harrison (02:58):
…that was my kind of first time spent building brands, creating brands and managing them and from there sort of continued in the FMCG direction, but actually moved to the home care and hygiene and health care, or at least OTC products that I work with now in Reckitt. So, I’ve been at Reckitt for 11 years, I think, worked across most of our power brand portfolio. So we have a series of brands that are the largest ones that kind of span the world and at a global level we work on those predominantly. And so I’ve spent time on the big ones that most people are aware of in like Finish in auto dishwashing, Lysol of course in disinfection and sanitizing, same with Dettol, kind of Aircare with Airwick, quite a bit of time on some of that OTC portfolio working on things like Gaviscon and Strepsils I did some work for a year or so on our vitamins minerals and supplements brands when we first acquired them a few years ago…

Jos Harrison (04:15):
…so those are brands like Mega Red Move Free and Airborne, and then more recently I’ve been leading our hygiene business unit, which covers all of our home care and hygiene surface care plans. So these are, brands like, Finish and Lysol Harpic and Airwick, Vanish… and we have quite a large portfolio in pest control and Mortein SBP and a few others. So pretty varied but I have to say the variation and that the kind of everyday new challenge is exactly what every designer dreams of. So it’s been a fantastic ride.

Francisco Serrano (04:56):
Yes. I mean, managing brands like Cadbury and going all the way to household, and there’s a common factor in both of them, they’re leading brands My first question to you Jos as an expert in the field, I wanted to ask you in this Now Gen that everything is changing so fast and the attention span of the consumers. It’s just barely there, right? How do you keep them involved? How do you engage them and how do you connect with them between products, brands and the audience?

Jos Harrison (05:42):
So I think it’s a, it’s a bigger challenge in home care and hygiene and those kinds of FMCG categories than it is in others. So if I look at something like chocolate, of course, or confectionary is a kind of what you think of as a high engagement category, people are motivated to experiment a little bit. And there’s an instant payoff of course, because there’s always the sugar hits. And so I think that that short moment of time where you, you get that payoff, you get the instant enjoyment, it’s a, it’s a relatively good fit with the, with the now gen you know, it is instant. Whereas if you think about the hygiene and home care category is kind of linked to cleaning things like pest control sanitizing, um, even Aircare kind of, um, frequency in your home or your car or immediate surroundings, they, they’re a little bit more difficult to get people engaged with.

Jos Harrison (06:46):
Um, and I think a lot of people across the industry talk on that low engagement categories. Um, but honestly, I, I don’t think there’s such a thing as a low engagement category. If we are asking people to hand over their hard-earned cash, uh, in exchange for a product or service, then it’s simply not that engagement. You know, it’s, it’s something that we, we as brand owners have to respect. I think we’ve got to deliver solutions that, um, that can engage with people all the way through their journey. And this comes to the point that you you’ve asked about, which is we can’t as brand owners. We can’t think about just the moment of providing the solution of solving the problem. You know, whether it’s sanitizing a surface, whether it’s fragrancing a room, whether it’s, um, the, the moment of opening the dishwasher and seeing that everything’s sparkling clean, um, that’s just one relatively small moments in the journey that the person has interacting with that category or with that need state, because it doesn’t really even help to think about the, the usage experience in terms of categories, you know, rather than thinking about dish washing or, um, home frequency, we should think about the person’s need.

Jos Harrison (08:02):
And this is where we, we start typically is, is understanding what problem is that person trying to solve? What’s the task they’re trying to complete, and why does it impact their lives? Why is it emotionally important to them to, to solve that problem? Uh, and I think working from that need state, you end up building a journey. So first thing is to, to understand the journey that person currently takes. Um, and that might be using, uh, an alternative product as a solution, or it might be a totally different behavior. So I think there are some super examples. If you think about cleaning, particularly in, uh, across Latin, um, you see a lot of, uh, cleaning behaviors where people, um, combined a number of different products or readily available kind of chemical solutions. Um, and each person has a personal that their own, a solution, you, their own mixture that they believe works best that has a blend of, of cleaning and sanitizing, uh, frequency, super important.

Jos Harrison (09:03):
Um, and, and those behaviors are the ones that you need to understand because as a brand, because once you understand the person’s current behavior on their journey, you can figure out where your brand can add value, um, and hire to, to build an engagement actually means something to that person is not just a, uh, a simple product solution that say, you know, my arm, if you’re saying that product solutions are necessarily simple, it’s not being intent, but I think the, the solution has to be thought of as the entire journey person has all the ways that they interact with your brand. From the moment they, they try to learn about a solution. They try to find out what solutions are available all the way through to completing their use of the product or service, hopefully solving the problem. Um, and then their decision as to whether they’re going to use the same service or product gain, whether they’re going to patch trade up within the broader, because you provide you a fantastic solution, or whether it wasn’t a good enough solution, they decided to search elsewhere and look for different, different solution from a different brand.

Jos Harrison (10:08):
Um, and how will you continue to then engage with that person after the service has been performed after you’ve solved the problem? You know, how can you ensure the person, it stays in contact with you in a way that’s appropriate? You know, that you’re not stepping into their life every five minutes and frankly winding them up, um, you know, keep it relevant, make sure that it’s, it’s meaningful, it’s timely, it’s not intrusive. And that ideally there’s a, there’s a core, uh, I would say a meaningful core to the, the way the brand interacts with people. Um, this is kind of linked to you or your points about purpose that you mentioned earlier, you know, that the purpose has to sit at the heart of the engagement between the brand and that that end user, um, because if it doesn’t have a reason to exist, why would I, why would I buy it? Why would I engage with it? I have hundreds of choices, you know, plus I can choose to find my own making a solution myself necessarily. Um, so, you know, I need to have a reason to, to engage with that brand, whether I’m, whether it’s a purchase, you know, whether it’s a value exchange or whether it’s simply listening to the brand, you know, looking at some information in might have, um, ideally all the way up to recommended.

Francisco Serrano (11:29):
Yeah. And, uh, uh, but before I jump into the, the, the, the pandemic, which is a question that I’m sure that everybody asks, I have to say that my mother used to put Fabuloso with chlorine, and that was the best bathroom cleaner ever. And I’m like, why do you have to buy like several? So I completed the, uh, um, I was raised and born and raised in Mexico. So last time that’s that’s me. And when you were saying it, I would completely completely relate to that. Yes. So it is true. Uh, okay. So coming back to pandemic, does the pandemic this year and a half, uh, that were, that we lived, and since nowadays, if you ask, uh, the typical worker or corporate worker, do you want to work at home or do you want to work at the office? Everybody wants to work either hybrid or at home, uh, that one being a, uh, an influencer and the other influencer would be the, the people being more aware of the germs and all that, uh, those two, those both items boost, or, um, increase the awareness and the recent to engage more with products like, you know, one of your brands Airwick, and now I, I want, I’m staying more at home and I want to be more, you know, the scent influences me more than before, does that matter, or I’m going to buy Leisel and really disinfect this surface because I don’t want to die, you know?

Francisco Serrano (13:16):
And I don’t want to be like, so does that, do you think that that helped in all this journey of the brand of making it more engaging with the product? Yeah.

Jos Harrison (13:28):
Uh, for sure. I think they’re, uh, they’re, they’re huge events and trends and, and significant cultural shifts that are always affecting the way people engage with different categories. Um, and, you know, during the pandemic, of course, it’s, it’s hygiene providing brands as, as you mentioned, Lysol, and, uh, and that’s all these kinds of, uh, product categories or solution categories, of course become more important to people in their, if they become more engaged, people are willing to spend a little bit more time, uh, thinking about the brands, talking to the brands, asking potentially for advice, you know, kind of usage information to help get the best out of the product or service, but that’s just as likely to change in a year or two. Uh, and the, the key, uh, societal or cultural behavioral shift might drive in a tiny different category to be sort of top of mind awareness.

Jos Harrison (14:22):
You know, so I think the, the important thing for us as, as brand owners is to, to come back to that point about understanding why the, the, the need is important to that particular person or group of people. You know, why do people want to ensure that, that their homes are sanitary? You know, it’s largely driven now by the pandemic, but I think historically it’s important to think about the reason people are engaging in the first place with that particular product or service, you know, things like flume or, um, kind of coughs and colds. They, they may seem less serious, but there are, uh, kind of equivalent level of interest or engagement or anxiety for people, um, in everyday life. So I think understanding why the, the product and the solution exists in first place. Why is it important to people, uh, you know, at all, um, why is the why they trying to solve that problem?

Jos Harrison (15:25):
And that helps you to ensure that you’re providing a relevant service relevant solution? Um, because it would probably, you know, it’s easy for, uh, a large business to kind of say, okay, this is there’s an increased demand. And therefore let’s ensure that production can meet that demand. Um, and we kind of sit back and let the world take its course, however long the pandemic lasts. But I think the responsibility of brands is to provide a, um, a meaningful solution, a meaningful service. And so it wouldn’t be, it wouldn’t be right to sort of sit back and do that. It’s, it’s far more important for us to look at how we can improve the care that the brand provides or the, the care that the brand enables the user to provide to their family. You know, uh, in the case of, uh, lifestyle is relatively straightforward, you know, it’s, it’s, how can we ensure that the, the germ protection is broad spectrum, you know, that we cover as many, um, sort of readily encountered germs and viruses and bacteria as, as absolutely possible so that we can, we can provide as much peace of mind as possible to that user or ensuring that the germ protection lasts longer.

Jos Harrison (16:45):
So that again, peace of mind is easier for the person to attain, but also what kind of information can we provide to help ease the anxiety around things like the pandemic, or, you know, kind of flu outbreaks in, in schools and this kind of thing, why don’t we, we set up the, uh, the German casts for lifestyle, you know, this kind of idea of forecasting, the likely outbreak of things like flu and even more recently for COVID. So I think understanding the person’s need in that situation helps the brand to figure out where should its interventions be. You know, what nature of intervention should make, should it be just information, should it be product, should it be a service, should it be a physical service, but digital one enabled by the other, et cetera. Um, and I think that that becomes super important because people will very quickly recognize that a brand is simply taking advantage and you know, that it’s, it’s a sales drive and nothing more.

Jos Harrison (17:44):
Uh, and honestly there we’re at the point now where people are, um, more than prepared to actively reject stuff, you know, it’s not simply a kind of at the select in favor of different brand. They won’t actively reject you. So they feel that a brand is, is not appropriately behaving. And Dan will tell everybody about it. You know, I think that’s the, one of the biggest, uh, shifts in our industry is that 10 years ago, 10 years ago, perhaps, um, you would see people prepared to, to review and to discuss, to recommend reject, however, um, higher value purchases, let’s say higher engagement categories and things like tronics and sportswear, et cetera. And of course, service Indra’s stuff like restaurants and bars and so on. You know, people would happily leave reviews. You can see a great deal for, for things like FMCG, especially home care, but it’s so easy for people to, to make their opinion known to share it.

Jos Harrison (18:50):
Uh, now you have to be aware that people very quickly actively reject something that they feel is inappropriate. Now at a time like this it’s even more important to, for brand staff responsibility, therefore, um, and you can very quickly get feedback from, you know, from people’s point of view on social media and, uh, kind of brand websites, CRM platforms. So I think that that notion of big cultural and behavioral shifts is just another reason for brands to think carefully about who are they serving, what problems are they solving? How do they provide that meaningful solution? And what is the meaning behind it? Why is the primary system, the first place? I think that’s, that’s more important than ever.

Francisco Serrano (19:40):
Yeah. And, uh, and I want to stop right there and, and, and, and talk a little bit about sustainability because you’re mentioning that the whole generation is making decisions and, and getting up the voice and saying, I don’t want it, or I want it, or I want this or that. And more and more, they are handling more that decisions of, uh, of the brands. So, uh, I know record has done some pretty good things related to this, right? Th th the colds live longer with them. Yeah. The campaign. Uh, so does that associate with the meaningful activities that you were talking about brands should do in order to make, uh, make, uh, a position in the market?

Jos Harrison (20:24):
Very much so. Yeah. And I think it kind of, it’s important to understand the way brands live in the world now. Um, you know, they are a, almost a co-collaboration with people, you know, the, the, the reactions and the engagement with the average person with the individual is so important. Now that it, I guess, to my previous point, that makes or breaks grants, but also it builds and helps to create and helps to guide. Um, you know, the brand effectively begins to evolve as an entity, through its interactions, with its, with its audience, with its users, with its choppers and with any interested parties. And I think that’s one of the things that pass FMCG as an industry is still a little bit and take on board. And it’s something that we’ve recognized as an organization a few years ago, and really try to address this is to kind of understand how the brand exists as a, as an ecosystem with its, with its users, with its cannabis, um, with its retailers.

Jos Harrison (21:37):
So it, it can’t be in an isolated entity. Can’t be, it’s like the shift from broadcast advertising itself, an ongoing kind of constant interaction with people. It’s, it’s inevitable one dimension. So, um, this, the, the things that are important to people in their decision making have to be just as important if not more so to the brand. So it’s like sustainability, and you have to consider sustainability as the, um, setting the conditions that enable the brand to continue to exist. You know, if, if, uh, vanish for example, exists in the, the ecosystem of clothes or fashion of laundry, um, energy usage for those in the first place of disposal, or the fat has to be taken into account in the way the brand provides its its products and services. So every interaction has to reflect the responsible position in that ecosystem. So when we look at vantage, we look back at the, the reason the ground existed in the first place that came back, then the original product sense, what problem are you solving?

Jos Harrison (22:53):
And actually you understand very quickly then that’s the problem that we’re solving isn’t necessarily removing stains, which is kind of the function that we brand originally grew from. And it’s enabling people to wear their clothes because they feel they look new for them and they want to pristine. They want to look great in these, these clouds. They want to look like they’ve just bought it and it still looks perfect even more so, you know, it could never be more important than the kind of the six talking and Instagram platforms, the face she presents the most, like managing your own brand. You know, these are everyone is managing their own individual brand platforms. And so the way you work, it’s critical. And I think understanding the role, the brand plays in that you suddenly realize the brand, isn’t the statement it’s actually helping these clothes. They’re so important to you and your self image to last, for longer grateful.

Jos Harrison (23:53):
And to help you project yourself image longer in a way that’s appropriate, you feel comfortable with it empowers you and makes you feel confident when you think about that way it’s it’s transformation. And what role do we need to play in that case? Well, simply providing the products is not enough. How do we help people to take care of that? Their garments, you know, help them to last longer? How do we work with, uh, with major industry bodies and partners to ensure that the way that the government’s producing the first place is as responsible as possible? No, that the, the sort of full life soccer, our products as they used is also as responsible as possible, but we’re able to recycle the parts wherever, whenever you know, that the packaging is appropriately made, we’re not using lots of Virgin materials, especially plastics. That that is then recyclable, that is easy to recycle.

Jos Harrison (24:50):
You know, we think about all of these million products that we use every day in theory, most of them are recyclable, but it depends if you have the facilities nearby. And if you understand the materials you used, because in a lot of cases, you have to do some kind of prep, prepare a cheap action. You know, we do the sleeve or label separately. We lead from the container or vice versa, keeping lid on the content. There’s so many variables, everything to navigate that is in itself, a big responsibility that we have to take. So I think this, this notion of sustainability is building the conditions that enable the brand to continue to exist and to continue to do good because that’s, that’s as role as well is to have a positive impact on them in France. Can’t, can’t be the old FMCG, um, paradigm of 30 years ago where they just exist to sell consumables. You know, we’re not a society that just consumed anymore. It’s just vastly irresponsible. I mean, everybody recognizes that. So brands can’t be simply teachables. They have to kind of dig into where they originally came from what they stood for, what problem they’re solving and ensure that they’re able to have an ongoing, positive effect in that sphere, in that ecosystem. I think it’s critical.

Francisco Serrano (26:18):
Great. Yeah. It’s amazing how, how you, you do this as a brand, not because you won more sales, but because it’s tied to your purpose or inside to, to what you’re all about and your DNA and, and sometimes the results are not immediate there, but you have to like invest and, and press and D and like you were saying, and this comes to my next question. My next question, in regards to instant gratification, it’s easier if you are a supermarket and you see a Cadbury there and you want the chocolate, and then you are instant gratified, like you were saying, just sugar rush, et cetera. And you’re not going to say, Hmm, that’s great. I have airways now in my pocket. Now I can be happy for the rest of my day. I know, I know the difference, but, but I have been talking to some, uh, key players and they, they, they have open my eyes to saying that instant gratification also comes through. I want to buy it now because I don’t have the time. So I go into e-com boom, simple, buy it, boom gratification done. I have Lysol or deacon or whatever brand is that, do you think also the technology and e-commerce plays, plays a role into that instant gratification type of a feel of the customer?

Jos Harrison (27:52):
Yeah. I think the ability to, uh, to make that purchase with as much ease as possible, I think it’s also super important to, to think about that journey within the commerce purchase movement. Um, it’s got to, it’s got to be simple. It should be as intuitive as possible. Ideally leads from a kind of information or awareness stage, probably in another digital medium. So that point about instant gratification. It’s, we’re not asking people to do lots of work, to be able to get that gratification there, to know that, okay, I bought that product it’s on its way. It’s going to be here within anything from an hour to three days, maybe. And so that, that, that closure of that moment, that task immediate to, to complete is clear and it was easily cheap, but I think the purchase moment is not the only place that you can build that, that instant gratification.

Jos Harrison (28:52):
I think that’s, what’s important about understanding the journey that people take with the categories, or, you know, that kind of journey from the start of the needs state, because there are potentially lots of little moments in that journey where you could provide some degree of, of gratification in school. And I think that’s becomes really important when we talk about the, the kind of engagement building with people and understanding that a brand believes, um, in, in so many touch points, it’s not just that, uh, the moment buying it and the act of using it and maybe seeing an advert on television, you know, it’s, it’s a world of difference. Now there’s so many opportunities to provide the little loan that surprise and delight. So, you know, those kind of you kind of looking at, uh, uh, perhaps in social media that, and click the link to, to happen more or to start to learn more, to have a look at the brand.

Jos Harrison (29:53):
Um, and maybe you, your engagement with the brand then starts with one or two very simple questions. The brand is demonstrating that it understands probably the reason you wanted to click on that thing in the first place. And it can kind of help you through the decision-making, uh, by kind of reflecting some of that information back to demonstrates empathy. First of all, super important. Um, it shows that not only is the brand prepared to understand your situation and your mindset, but it’s actually prepared to do it. And here’s a product or service that was tailored to the reason that you’re invested in this, this needs state wide support too. And those are the kind of little moments that even if you’re just reading a bit of information, you sort of go, well, that’s cool. I’m reading glad someone’s thought about that. You know, they understand the reason I’m this, then they actually care.

Jos Harrison (30:49):
And it might be just little tiny moments where the experience is slightly better than you expected. And I think the, those delivered that, that notion of instant gratification actually is so important. So it could be little tiny things that may be long before you can get to use the product it could be installed, but it might not be linked to the purchase itself with actually buying. It might be some kind of information store. And imagine you scan a QR code and generate some experience in store that helps you understand why you might use the product. Maybe you were trying to decide between few different products. It’s a short video that you can watch in the store show via its best use for this. Um, and at that point you also see the brand has some links to other partners that you also find credible, you know, farmers in the same ecosystem. That’s maybe already have more credibility or have a specific type of scientific credibility and instigate that shows a degree of relevance that is far more important than a lower price or three times more in the bottle. Or do you know what I mean? I think that demonstrating your empathy with the person that’s trying to solve a problem can come in 70 different ways. And that’s what tends to generate those little moments of gratification, because that person feels that you actually care as a brand. You prepare to take action based on that.

Francisco Serrano (32:25):
Exactly. And for example, when you bring this to the conversation, I’m like, uh, imagine that you’re looking for a product that is not harsh to your kids, or because you, you know, your wellness and your, uh, and then a conversation at a, at a, at a gathering with your friends, somebody talks about, you know, the banish campaign and that they care about that and this, and they just made the comparison. Imagine they care about this, imagine that they’re not going to put this harsh chemicals, even though you’re not saying that, but they’re caring. So the care comes along and then I hear it. And then I say, Hmm, so care, Manish. And next time, instead of looking at a video or a TV commercial, whatever, it is just a simple conversation informally with somebody that it’s engaged with the brand. And then it gave me the care word that I’m going to use when I am in front of that product. And I would say, whoops, banish, I don’t have to see the TV ad or the campaign. I’m just, you know, this, this person bought it and believes in and connected with the purpose of the brand. And then the, just, it just follows the rest. That’s what you’re referring.

Jos Harrison (33:49):
Yeah, very much. And I think it’s a, it’s a concept, a marketing concept with all of this time itself is the notion of referral. You know, we, we we’ve heard for years probably that referrals the best kind of advertisement because I respect my peers opinion more than I respect any brand telling me on a TV screen, um, that this, this product or this service is the best thing you can, you can buy. You know, I’d much rather hear from, from someone who I know is in similar situations has similar interests, similar problems, et cetera. And so everybody, everybody loves to be seen as some kind of expert. That’s amazing. We love to help other people. That’s human nature. We want to share information with that stuff that we found useful or stuff that we didn’t find very useful. And we would guide people away from you.

Jos Harrison (34:41):
Don’t waste you for the amount of times. You’ve heard people in friends saying, don’t waste your time with this brand or tell you why I use this the other day. Brilliant. Um, and I think that that becomes even more important now that we have the ability to instantly share, you know, we, we touched on it earlier, social media channels and the ability to feedback instantly, whether you’re feeding back to the brand, we feeding back, that’s an entire world. You know, the feedback loop is instant. I think helping people to feel like they understand the brand or the category or the need state, or that ecosystem. I talked about, you know, to understand more than just the brand and stuff, but all of the other partners and other, um, I suppose, contributors to that ecosystem helps that person to feel like some degree of an expert. And they’re far more likely to share their opinion. And of course, ensuring that opinions is built in way that it’s relevant, appropriate, responsible. And this is, as you said, we’re purposed once your brand is understood and is known for the reason it exists, people connect with that purpose, you know, it’s, it’s equally important to them, then that’s how you ended up building that kind of organic process. And there’s nothing more that. Sure.

Francisco Serrano (36:07):
Yeah. Yeah. I completely agree. Uh, what, what is your, what is the proudest moment looking back at your career? Uh, Josh, what is the proudest moment that you remember?

Jos Harrison (36:20):
Um, I think it’s very difficult for, for a designer, especially with the career. Fair is fair because that, that constant change, if the problem you’re trying to solve is massive demotivates them as a designer, you know, yourself, that it’s, it’s always about solving problems. You know, if I was, if I was creating things myself to be an artist I’m going to be assigned, um, I’m working to a brief, I’m trying to solve someone else’s problem. Exactly. And so the constant change in that is always massively and refreshing. And I think, you know, any, any, anyone in any creative industry probably feels that same constant refresh of the challenge, which is brilliant. I would have to say though, that the work I do now is by far the most, um, the most rewarding, uh, the, the highlights, if you like. Um, and I, I never imagined this would be the case, which you think is interesting.

Jos Harrison (37:22):
I’m sure, you know, people as they start to get to my age and they, if they experienced a similar, um, kind of shift in their perception, I always imagined that actively creating stuff, the end result was always going to be the most motivating and the most rewarding, but kind of gradually moving into, into leadership. The creative challenges just become different. And I think trying to change organizational culture, you know, creating ways to, to shift the, the organization into a direction that helps to bring about purpose, it helps to deliver purpose, um, enables us to make bigger differences in people’s lives, you know, transformation of the way a brand works or a company then becomes just an unbelievable challenge and reward in itself. So I think that the current sort of work that I do, that the team lead lead, the brands that I work with, the moment that I happen to be in the organization, you know, Reckitt doing some incredible stuff, um, and has been for, you know, for some time. So it’s, it’s the highlight for sure. And who knows what’s around the corner, but, uh, I think this is a, it’s a great time to, to work with global brands, um, and to work in the creative industries. I think we have greater influence and greater support than ever in, especially in the client side, uh, which is, is a fantastic, uh, kind of place to be.

Francisco Serrano (39:08):
Great. Great. Thank you. Thank you for sharing and congratulations on that, Josh. Uh, I know that the challenges there and, and, and you’re doing such a great job with all your teams, so congrats on that. And, uh, so for all the listeners that are hearing you right now, and there are, you know, uh, coping with the fast changing now, Gen-Z that they want instant gratification and probably they’re in different industries. Of course. What would you, uh, just one simple takeaway that you will say simple, they can take away and say, I’m going to start doing that tomorrow. What would you do as a recommended?

Jos Harrison (39:53):
We don’t have that. I would say, um, get into the shoes of your user, understand who you’re trying to solve the problem for understand exactly how they counter that problem. And then think about more than just the instant solution, because you can provide that instant gratification and builds your, your engagement with that person over a number of different touch points throughout their journey. So be absolutely clear on how they go about solving their problem currently and how your brand can add value in that journey. Where can you step in and help them and improve that journey? Where can you step back and lead them to it and not intrude where’s the most appropriate and most impactful and most positive points in that journey that you can, you can provide something with your brand.

Francisco Serrano (40:47):
Great. And, and be always self-aware right. Because if you were like, yes, I can be a model of Victoria secret. I can be in, you’re clearly not a candidate for that. Then you must step back and say, let’s not do it at this time. And, uh, yeah. And by the way, uh, this is the final question of the whole interview. And, uh, I’ll even birdie told me that you like beer, right? I that’s a little too

Jos Harrison (41:21):
Much. Yes,

Francisco Serrano (41:23):
No, but I mean, I want to ask you, which is your preferred brand of beer and why?

Jos Harrison (41:31):
Ironically it’s, it’s very ironic because we didn’t prepare this, this question, the t-shirt that I’m wearing is a t-shirt from the brewery. And it’s probably my favorite brewery. Um, it’s a, it’s a company called other half in Brooklyn, uh, in

Francisco Serrano (41:50):
New York. Oh, okay. Okay.

Jos Harrison (41:53):
Because they are they’re experimental, uh, they kind of specialize in IPA’s, which is kind of like my favorite style of beer. Um, it’s just funny that you asked that question. I’m wearing this t-shirt oh, it’s the experimentation. Um, I, I sort of, I suppose discovered it’s an overused term these days, but I discovered, uh, craft beers a few years ago after I’ve never been particularly keen on beer because I don’t like carbonated pilsners and stuff and uncovered what turns out to be a fantastically creative industry is one of the reasons I’m I love it is not just the experimentation that happens in the product, but the sheer amazing range of creativity that, that is present on the way it’s marketed and particularly the labels for cans and bottles. And I think the standard and the breadth of, of illustration design on, on craft beer packaging specifically is just incredible. I could literally, I could stare at it all day long. There’s such variety and such imagination that, uh, it it’s like an expression of creativity to me.

Francisco Serrano (43:08):
Okay. Wow. I didn’t know. I didn’t know what the shirt meant now. Now I know that that is like the logo or what is it?

Jos Harrison (43:16):
Yeah. So it’s, um, there are two circles, so the two circles are letter O for other, and then you see the H in the center.

Francisco Serrano (43:25):
Oh, other ha oh, okay. Gotcha. Well, well, I promised that we did not rehearse this. This was completely,

Jos Harrison (43:37):
It’s a, it’s a free book for other half in Brooklyn, if anybody’s there. Well-worth the book.

Francisco Serrano (43:41):
Okay. Yeah, we’ll definitely try it when I’m there. Um, anything you want to add before we wrap up? Uh, Josh,

Jos Harrison (43:51):
I just say thanks. Um, I think it’s, it’s been great to chat. We don’t get a chance to chat to software as we would like any nights that this is a, it’s a really nice opportunity to just sit and talk. Um, I think it’s great to kind of, uh, help people to, to crystallize their thinking around this, this principle of instant gratification, that the desire to solve things immediately, or to have, uh, an instant payoff for that value exchange right there. And then, um, and it, it helps me to focus my thinking and I appreciate the opportunity to kind of talk through it because it helps to, to focus the way that I think about it. You know, any opportunity, chance to sort of talk through the problems our industry faces, the ways to, to better build solutions for people is always very welcome. So thank you. I appreciate

Francisco Serrano (44:44):
No, thank you. Thank you. If anybody wants to reach out to you where work and they do show

Jos Harrison (44:51):
Like everyone I’m on LinkedIn and kind of checking it relatively regularly. So I’d say, just reach out and say happy to correspond with people as needed.

Francisco Serrano (45:04):
Excellent. Well, thank you so much, Josh, for being here with us. Uh, and, uh, we’re being, we’ve been talking to Jace Harrison, he’s the global head of brand experience and designed at ragged. Uh, if you want to hear more about the most relevant power brands for the now generation, stay tuned for the next episode. Thank you for being here.